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{"id":34748,"date":"2023-06-09T21:34:32","date_gmt":"2023-06-09T21:34:32","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/scienceandnerds.com\/2023\/06\/09\/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama\/"},"modified":"2023-06-09T21:34:35","modified_gmt":"2023-06-09T21:34:35","slug":"reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/scienceandnerds.com\/2023\/06\/09\/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama\/","title":{"rendered":"Reddit CEO doubles down on attack on Apollo developer in drama-filled AMA"},"content":{"rendered":"

Source:https:\/\/techcrunch.com\/2023\/06\/09\/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama\/<\/a><\/br>
\nReddit CEO doubles down on attack on Apollo developer in drama-filled AMA<\/br>
\n2023-06-09 21:34:32<\/br><\/p>\n

\n

Reddit\u2019s unpopular decision to revise its API pricing in a move that\u2019s forcing third-party apps out of business<\/a> has taken a weird turn. In an AMA hosted today<\/a> by Reddit co-founder and CEO Steve Huffman, aka u\/spez on the internet forum site, the exec doubled down on accusations against the developer behind the well-liked third-party app Apollo, which the company had previously accused<\/a> of operating inefficiency and not being a good \u201cAPI\u201d user.<\/p>\n

Despite community backlash \u2014 which includes a site-wide protest<\/a> from thousands of communities known as subreddits \u2014 Huffman\u2019s AMA confirmed the company has no plans to revise its coming API changes. What\u2019s more, Huffman continued his accusations<\/a> against Apollo, calling out the developer, Christian Selig\u2019s, \u201cbehavior and communications\u201d as being \u201call over the place\u201d and saying he couldn\u2019t see Reddit working with the developer further.<\/p>\n

Selig had been among the first to highlight that<\/a> Reddit\u2019s new API pricing<\/a> would effectively make it impossible to continue to operate the Apollo app. He explained that, under the new terms, it would cost him $20 million per year<\/a> to do so \u2014 money the app doesn\u2019t make. This week, Selig announced the app\u2019s last day<\/a> would be June 30, ahead of the July 1 implementation of the new API pricing.<\/p>\n

Other third-party apps are also closing down, including Sync, RIF, and Reddplant, to name a few.<\/p>\n

But Huffman seemingly has an ax to grind with Selig in particular, first accusing the developer of extortion, per Selig\u2019s extensive post on the situation<\/a> between himself and Reddit.<\/p>\n

According to Selig\u2019s interpretation of the situation, he raised the question as to why Reddit was choosing to change its API terms to put third-party apps out of business, rather than just buying them out, as the company did with Alien Blue (an older Reddit client that it acquired in 2014<\/a>.) He said that if Apollo was costing Reddit $20 million per year, Reddit should cut him a check to put an end to the app. The remark doesn\u2019t sound like a serious ask from his telling. If fact, he clarified on the call, \u201c\u2026this is mostly a joke.\u201d<\/p>\n

If anything, it comes across as a means of trying to understand why the company would make a move that\u2019s sure to generate ill will among its wider community. (As it has<\/a>.)<\/p>\n

A Reddit representative on a call with Selig, however, first seemingly interpreted his comment as a \u201cthreat,\u201d Selig said. But on the call, they cleared up the misunderstanding and the contact apologized. Selig came with receipts \u2014 he recorded<\/a> the call (which is legal where he\u2019s based in Canada.)<\/p>\n

But in a subsequent call with moderators, Huffman referred to this conversation as Selig \u201cthreatening\u201d Reddit.<\/p>\n

That stance hasn\u2019t softened on Reddit\u2019s side, Huffman made clear today.<\/p>\n

In the AMA, one user asked Huffman to clarify, \u201cwhat were you thinking with your attempt to discredit Apollo by claiming that Christian threatened and blackmailed you?\u201d<\/p>\n

The response was surprising. Unlike most companies, which try to soften their blows behind corporate PR speak, Huffman answered rather plainly.<\/p>\n

\u201cHis \u2018joke\u2019 is the least of our issues,\u201d the CEO wrote. \u201cHis behavior and communications with us has been all over the place\u2014saying one thing to us while saying something completely different externally; recording and leaking a private phone call\u2014to the point where I don\u2019t know how we could do business with him.\u201d<\/p>\n

It\u2019s an odd turn of events for Apollo, whose iOS-first and user-friendly design just this week saw it featured during Apple\u2019s Worldwide Developer Conference, ahead of Reddit\u2019s API policy change that will now put it out of business.<\/p>\n

Other prominent developers have come out in support of Selig following this debacle.<\/p>\n

Halide co-founder Sebastiaan de With tweeted<\/a> on Thursday calling Selig \u201cone of the nicest guys in our indie app world,\u201d and said Reddit management was lying, slandering, and vilifying him. Others<\/a> quote tweeted and agreed.<\/p>\n

\n
\n

Absolutely horrible news. Not only is Apollo a great app, Reddit\u2019s management is lying about, slandering and vilifying one of the nicest guys in our indie app world while unceremoniously killing off an app he worked on for many years. https:\/\/t.co\/uDDnUX5hIW<\/a><\/p>\n

\u2014 Sebastiaan de With (@sdw) June 8, 2023<\/a><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

Unless Reddit\u2019s board chooses to intervene, it doesn\u2019t seem that Huffman is concerned much about the fallout from these decisions, site-wide protest<\/a> or not.<\/p>\n

In the AMA, he fended off a number of questions, politely phrased and not, from users upset over the API changes. These ranged from those questioning the model<\/a> (why not a profit-sharing model like Epic does with Unreal?) to those asking about the compressed timeframe<\/a> to broader questions about Reddit\u2019s shift to being more about profits than community engagement. (\u201cWe\u2019ll continue to be profit-driven until profits arrive, the CEO replied<\/a>. \u201cUnlike some of the 3P apps, we are not profitable.\u201d)<\/p>\n

\u201cSome apps, like Apollo, Reddit is Fun and Sync have decided this [API] pricing doesn\u2019t work for their businesses and will close before pricing goes into effect,\u201d Huffman explained. \u201cFor the other apps, we will continue talking. We acknowledge that the timeline we gave was tight; we are happy to engage with folks who want to work with us.\u201d<\/p>\n

In the comments<\/a>, though, ReddPlanet\u2019s developer (u\/lupeski, aka Tony Lupeski) said \u201cthis is a blatant lie,\u201d noting that he had tried multiple times to get in contact with Reddit regarding these changes and had been ignored. Another indie app<\/a> developer said<\/a> they had filled out a request for Enterprise API access 3 times and had received no response.<\/p>\n

As for the rest of the AMA, there\u2019s little more to report beyond what Reddit had already shared. The company is seemingly unmoved by the community backlash over its API changes and has no intention to delay or reconsider. It will still maintain its carve-out for a handful of accessibility-focused apps,<\/a> as stated.<\/p>\n

Huffman also clarified that while The NYT piece positioned the API pricing changes<\/a> as a way to limit access to its forums, which have become a training ground for large language models (LLMs), that\u2019s not the only reason behind this move \u2014 the company is also spending \u201ctens of millions of dollars\u201d per year to support the third-party app ecosystem, and that needed to be reigned in. (And it\u2019s in \u201cactive discussion\u201d with companies using Reddit as training data for their AIs).<\/p>\n

The exec additionally noted that access to mature content will be limited via its Data API as of July 5, 2023, as part of a broader effort to provide additional guardrails under a \u201cstricter\u201d regulatory environment, but explicit content was still being allowed.<\/p>\n

An overview of the AMA in a more readable format is available<\/a> on r\/Save3rdPartyApps, a community that sprung up since the API changes were announced. The forum now has over 50,000 members.<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n

<\/br><\/br><\/br><\/p>\n

Science, Tech, Technology<\/br>
\n<\/br>
\nSource:
https:\/\/techcrunch.com\/2023\/06\/09\/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama\/<\/a><\/br><\/br><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Source:https:\/\/techcrunch.com\/2023\/06\/09\/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama\/ Reddit CEO doubles down on attack on Apollo developer in drama-filled AMA 2023-06-09 21:34:32 Reddit\u2019s unpopular decision to revise its API pricing in a move that\u2019s forcing third-party apps out of business has taken a weird turn. In an AMA hosted today by Reddit co-founder and CEO Steve Huffman, aka u\/spez on the internet […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":34749,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"pagelayer_contact_templates":[],"_pagelayer_content":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[26,17,8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-34748","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-science","category-tech","category-technology"],"yoast_head":"\nReddit CEO doubles down on attack on Apollo developer in drama-filled AMA - Science and Nerds<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/scienceandnerds.com\/2023\/06\/09\/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Reddit CEO doubles down on attack on Apollo developer in drama-filled AMA - Science and Nerds\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Source:https:\/\/techcrunch.com\/2023\/06\/09\/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama\/ Reddit CEO doubles down on attack on Apollo developer in drama-filled AMA 2023-06-09 21:34:32 Reddit\u2019s unpopular decision to revise its API pricing in a move that\u2019s forcing third-party apps out of business has taken a weird turn. In an AMA hosted today by Reddit co-founder and CEO Steve Huffman, aka u\/spez on the internet […]\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/scienceandnerds.com\/2023\/06\/09\/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Science and Nerds\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2023-06-09T21:34:32+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2023-06-09T21:34:35+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/scienceandnerds.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/06\/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama_64839aea9cc0f.jpeg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"600\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"400\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"admin\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"admin\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"6 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/scienceandnerds.com\/2023\/06\/09\/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/scienceandnerds.com\/2023\/06\/09\/reddit-ceo-doubles-down-on-attack-on-apollo-developer-in-drama-filled-ama\/\",\"name\":\"Reddit CEO doubles down on attack on Apollo developer in drama-filled AMA - 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