Zigbee<\/a>, but it had the same wireless fundamentals at the lowest levels that we could add other software on top of.<\/p>\nI said, \u201cAll of our products have to connect together. Wi-Fi doesn\u2019t cut it, Bluetooth doesn\u2019t cut it. We need a new standard.\u201d Zigbee was still starting to happen in the home theater world. I said we needed to bet on something, and that\u2019s how it went. We had a long-term vision. Products like a thermostat stay on the wall for 10, 12, 15 years. You don\u2019t change it every 12 to 18 months like you do a cell phone. We shouldn\u2019t even be buying cell phones at that rate either, given what we\u2019re doing to the planet. That said, these things are going to be in your house for a long time, so let\u2019s try to make them work together. Let\u2019s make sure that we have that customer relationship for a long time, and not make them go buy a new thermostat five years in. No one does that.<\/p>\n
That was the long-term vision because we said we had a platform in the home, not just a product. The whole goal of Nest was to be a platform company. That was the reason why we ultimately sold to Google, because we knew that the platform company would take billions of dollars to build over time. No VC in their right mind would fund a company with two product lines, where products themselves were profitable unit-wise, but the overall company was not. We have this and now I am going to ask them for money to build a platform? There was no way I was going to get that. I was never going to be able to build the dream, the vision, the way we wanted to. That\u2019s why we ultimately had to sell.<\/p>\n
This seems like one of the central tensions of all the products that I talk about lately. You have a great piece of hardware, but then it is connected to a software stack, a platform, or a connectivity stack, and you have to just continually spend time fixing and improving that thing. Every hardware CEO I talk to \u2014 from John Deere to Sonos \u2014 comes on the show and they\u2019re like, \u201cWe actually spend more money on software than hardware,\u201d which is completely backwards to me.<\/strong><\/p>\nThat\u2019s always the case.<\/p>\n
\n
\u201cHow on earth can any startup survive with that huge weight of perpetual software cost, without just selling out to one of the giants?\u201d<\/q><\/aside>\n<\/div>\nWell, it\u2019s intuitively backwards, I would say. Now that it\u2019s revealed, it\u2019s become accepted wisdom. How on earth can any startup survive with that huge weight of perpetual software cost, without just selling out to one of the giants?<\/strong><\/p>\nIt\u2019s a really good question. <\/p>\n
Tesla is a perfect example. They were able to wrap a lot of software with a lot of metal and build a platform beyond the car. There was the software platform of the car, then there was the supercharging network, so on and so forth. There are those once-in-a-lifetime kind of situations that you go for and try to make happen. There are times when it does make a lot of sense, if it is differentiated. <\/p>\n
With Nest, it was a slow-moving market. Whereas EVs, all of a sudden, boom, the whole world decided they need to make the transition. In a lot of ways Elon got lucky, but he did the right things. None of the suppliers would offer him anything. He had to build it because he had to. Nobody wanted to work with him because he was like, \u201cOh, who is this little company? You\u2019re not Ford or a Big Three.\u201d He had to out of necessity.<\/p>\n
I think a lot of those companies that are born out of necessity and have to create these things could exist because they are doing something so different. That\u2019s the reason why we sold Nest. If we didn\u2019t sell, I don\u2019t think we would have been able to do it. We were already bumping up into those other companies. <\/p>\n
Now, if the next car company comes in while Apple or Google has their own car, then that might not happen. I do think you can innovate other spaces that they are not innovating in. You can create other platforms outside, but you just have to not try to replicate or go against them. You have to go in a whole different direction that they\u2019re not looking at. We are doing that at a couple of our startups now; we are making new platforms that these guys are not even looking at. They don\u2019t understand the new hardware, the new software, the new markets, and the new pains that are opening up because of climate change or health.<\/p>\n
I think that can happen. Just don\u2019t try to build a platform that you know these guys are going to get interested in building sooner or later. They could fudge you out of existence even if they don\u2019t build it.<\/p>\n
Let me bring that back to Matter real quick. The idea of a standard like Bluetooth or Wi-Fi, is that you can build something and get all the benefits of the standard for free. You just connect to it, and everyone uses it. That is a great network effect. <\/strong><\/p>\nI look at the smart home and I say, \u201cWell, Amazon\/Google\/Apple just wants to own everything in my house.\u201d Matter is the thing that is supposed to break that. All this stuff can talk to each other, and my iPhone can connect to my Amazon Ring devices, or what have you. They all say they want to do it; they are all part of this board. I do not see why their incentives align such that it will actually happen. That seems like a really tenuous bet to me. Do you think that it is actually going to happen?<\/strong><\/p>\nI think these companies have realized that there are so many products that need to go into the home that they are not going to build them all. You have to treat them almost like an app ecosystem. There are certain apps on your iPhone that come from Apple, and there are a lot more that do not. You need to have everybody looking at all these different angles. <\/p>\n
The hardware \u2014 like connected light switches and plugs \u2014 is not a great business, to tell you the truth. That is why we didn\u2019t do it in Nest. Frankly it sucks. So you say, \u201cDo I really need to do this? No, I don\u2019t. I need to own the software and the user interface, but I don\u2019t need to connect to all that stuff.\u201d <\/p>\n
Most of the products in the home-connected ecosystem are not great businesses unless you own the platform and the user interface. They are going to let all these things bloom. And you know what, what the hell? Let them use some kind of Matter-like protocol. Let them connect to me, because I can only evangelize so much.<\/p>\n
We tried to make it so only this ecosystem can work with this ecosystem. You brought up Bluetooth. In certain cases, Bluetooth is not even used in AirPods, or the whole stack I should say. Over time, when it becomes a good business, we will individuate and make our own thing. In most cases like Wi-Fi, you can use all kinds of third-party stuff. I see the same thing happening with the home-connected products. \u201cWhat is the standard? Let\u2019s all go for it.\u201d They are usually not great businesses for the platform companies. So okay, no big deal.<\/p>\n
Now, let\u2019s say there is some product that just blows everyone away that we did not realize. People will then start making additions to Matter, just like we saw with the browser with Microsoft or even Google \u2014 making their own proprietary extensions to that protocol. Sometimes those are successful, most times they fail. My hope is that Matter, just like Bluetooth, will continue to make tons of evolutionary changes and just keep up with what people need. It may not be the best thing ever. You might see things like the AirPods out there that will ultimately come back to Bluetooth or another standard. It\u2019s just that war. For the most part, most of those products are bad businesses. <\/p>\n
There\u2019s a light switch CEO out there right now just crying into his coffee.<\/strong><\/p>\nI talked to a lot of them because they wanted me to buy them. Back in the day \u2014 I won\u2019t name names \u2014 there were a lot of them who said, \u201cPlease buy my company because you need smart light switches.\u201d<\/p>\n
All right, I am going to tell our producer Creighton that we have to get a light switch CEO on the show. Really come at light switches, and why they are running a good business.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n
\u201cThere\u2019s a light switch CEO out there right now just crying into his coffee.\u201d<\/q><\/aside>\n<\/div>\nThey are great businesses, but not for these large companies that make 60 or 80 points margin. These are 20 point margin companies, like making cables or docks.<\/p>\n
I have talked to those CEOs, and they are some of the scrappiest folks out there.<\/strong><\/p>\nI love them. Let me be clear, almost my whole marketing team at Nest came from Logitech, because I wanted scrappy. I wanted people who knew how to talk to customers and make those marketing dollars sweat. I didn\u2019t want Apple guys. I love the Apple guys, but they have resources beyond what a startup has and they think very differently. You have to think about your constraints and hire properly for those constraints. The Logitech team \u2014 Anton and Eric and Mateo and all these people \u2014 are amazing people and they did a scrappy, amazing job. Look at what Nest looked like when it came out. I think we did a really damn good job. I\u2019m very proud of it.<\/p>\n
I have one on my wall here, it\u2019s great. Actually, the first generation ones I bought for my parents are still on their wall. Last question. You are an investor now; you have Future Shape, which is your investment company. What is the bleeding-edge technology that you are investing in or paying attention to that no one else sees?<\/strong><\/p>\nI cannot say the names of the companies except for one, Menlo Micro. Menlo Micro is a great one. They are creating the transistor moment for relays. Relays in the world \u2014 little electromechanical or solid-state relays \u2014 open and close contacts. When we electrify the world or we make the world fully wireless, you need these types of relays everywhere. It\u2019s called distribution for electricity, or RF. All of our cell phone towers have them in them. These guys have made a MEMS component that replaces relays, which have not been innovated since the 1880s. This is the first thing like that, and people have tried for 40 years to make this work. These guys finally cracked the code. These things are going to be everywhere. Again, just like that M1 processor, the initial processor, it is going to change everything over time. Same thing goes here, especially as we are moving to more energy conservation and those kinds of things.<\/p>\n
Menlo Micro making an electronic micro mechanical switch for power and RF distribution is huge. I cannot tell you how much. We waste so much energy today in these networks, and this gets rid of it and makes it much more reliable. It\u2019s crazy stuff. <\/p>\n
We do diamonds without mines, like we\u2019re in Diamond Foundry. We are making diamond wafers for the next generation silicon. \u201cOkay, you\u2019re making jewelry?\u201d Well guess what? That wasn\u2019t the only thing we were making. We are making literally diamond semiconductor wafers, because that is the next generation of computing technology. These are the kind of crazy things that no one sees that we are investing in well ahead of the curve. Not the stuff that you are hearing about in the press, Meta this or NFT that.<\/p>\n
You\u2019re talking to the press. You have a big audience right now.<\/strong><\/p>\nWell, it\u2019s not like everyone right now is like, \u201cOh my God, look at how cool it is!\u201d I think it\u2019s cool. The geeks think it\u2019s cool. One day when they see these things in their VR headsets that they are staring at all day, then they are going to go, \u201cOh, that\u2019s cool too.\u201d<\/p>\n
All right. Well, Tony, you have given me more time than you promised. I really appreciate it. I could talk to you about MEMS relays for another hour. I love talking to you every time we hang out. Thanks for coming on the show.<\/strong><\/p>\nHey, let\u2019s have a drink and let\u2019s get kicked out of a bar again together. All right?<\/p>\n
I would love to, man.<\/strong><\/p>\nCome to Paris or I\u2019ll be in New York. Let\u2019s hang out.<\/p>\n
I said this before we started taping, but I will say it to the audience, it feels like throughout my life Tony Fadell has popped up and been like, \u201cYou should grow up a little bit, get married, have a kid.\u201d So this is another one of those times, and we will have to have another one soon.<\/strong><\/p>\nThank you. Thanks for having me on, and thanks for the 10 years of hard work you guys have been doing at The Verge<\/em>. I still think you are the best news source for the technology world out there, and I am always reading it. You have really lived up to what you said you were going to do 10 years ago, so you should be very proud. Thank you.<\/p>\nI appreciate that. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n<\/aside>\n<\/div>\nSource: https:\/\/www.theverge.com\/23053632\/tony-fadell-build-decoder-apple-iphone-google-alphabet-steve-jobs<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Source: Tony Fadell was instrumental in the development of the iPod and iPhone at Apple and then co-founded Nest Labs, which kicked off the consumer smart home market with its smart thermostat in 2011. Tony sold Nest to Google for $3.2 billion in 2014 and eventually left Google. He now runs an investment firm called […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":4969,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"pagelayer_contact_templates":[],"_pagelayer_content":"","_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4968","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-technology"],"yoast_head":"\n
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